Butch Speaks Out

catelynn lowell


We've heard all about Tyler Baltierra's father, Butch, and his drug addiction and constant jail hopping ways throughout 4 seasons of Teen Mom.

We've seen Butch struggle with sobriety, abuse, and other things. No matter how much he says that he's changed, he somehow always ends up back in jail.

We saw a segment on Monday night's episode of Teen Mom OG that showed Nick, Catelynn's younger brother, reading a card that Butch had made for his birthday.

This brought up a lot of emotions for Nick as well as Tyler. Tyler said that he saw how Nick felt and could really empathize with the emotions.

Tyler and Catelynn recently published a tell-all memoir titled "Conquering Chaos" and you can imagine that there's a segment on Butch's relationship with Tyler.

Tyler says that his father was frequently absent from his life, and that when he was around, the two would drink alcohol and smoke marijuana.

Butch obviously hasn't been the greatest influence, but Tyler has seemed to somehow rise above this, and we can only hope that he's a better father to Novalee than Butch was to him.

Butch reached out to Radar Online from prison, and mentioned that he has not had the opportunity to read the book yet, but that Tyler plans to send him a copy.

Butch admits that he feels terribly for the things that he's done wrong, but that he can't change the past.

He says that his relationship with Tyler has improved, and that the two speak frequently on the phone and through letters.

We don't currently know when Butch will be released. We heard on Monday that it might have been an early release date sometime in March, but that hasn't happened yet.

We probably will not get to see Butch on Teen Mom OG, but we'll get to at least hear his voice.

This guy blessed us with two of the best quotes of the season so far, and I'm sure there's more where that comes from.

In all seriousness, I'm glad that Tyler continues to allow his father to attempt to be a part of his life, and that the resentment of an absent father hasn't hardened his heart to Butch all together.

I do hope that Butch gets his life together, but it's hard to think positively about it when the guy's spent like 20 combined years behind bars.


Good old coke lovin', baby sniffin' Butch...


That's truly one thing I love about Tyler....

No matter how much his dad has hurt him Tyler still See's good in him.

When you've been treated badly hate is an easy thing to do.

But to still believe in that person and love them... It truly does show a good side of Tyler.

But my compliments end there.

He has done remarkably well given the cards he was dealt. I agree he is not full of hatred which is an amazing quality and thankfully unlike other children brought up in the kind of household he was, he actually still knows wrong from right.

Ya Tyler and catelynn are both way better than their parents. They have a totally different mindset than kail about that. Also, when did their book come out and did anyone read it?

It came out a few weeks ago. I read some of it in the bookstore and it was some pretty rough stuff. Horrible situations.

I haven't read any of the teen mom books, but I might read theirs. I'm actually interested a little bit in their childhood

I'd be interested in reading their story too, if there's a copy floating out there online. If anyone knows where I can uh, "acquire" a copy, let me know.

I still wonder what Kim saw in Butch. Especially to have two kids with him

Apparently she was just like April back in the day, which is probably why she was with Butch long enough to have two children with him. Then she found religion and turned her life around and has been on the straight and narrow ever since.

It's sooo hard to imagine her like that, but good for her.

Yea I agree she seems so... Normal. I cant even imagine her ever being with him. But if she was like him and managed to turn her life around to the point that she has, good on her you don't see that often!

Wow! I've wondered the same for years. Thanks for clearing that up! Another thing I've intermittently wondered about is Tyler's sister, Amber, who's had like 3+ (?) kids ever since season 1. I love how the MTV storyboard just dismisses these sideshows when in truth they are far from irrelevant to the "main characters". In the same way, they treat Amber's (16" Eyelash Portwood) cousin, Krystal, as a total prop. Krystal has 2 babies of her own, I believe, and apparently is now divorced. Why portray her one-dimensionally? Because she's not a Teen Mom, even though she's a teen mother? What about Chelsea Houska's sister, who is a teen mother to two girls? It's just odd that the producers seem dead-set on showing each girl's story in total isolation.

So much for a short comment haha

Amber is a trainwreck with a capital T. My friend grew up in the same town as C&T and family, and she follows Amber on FB. I -think- she only has two kids.

Side note about this group: one of their friends posted on FB, "Nova Reign? Sounds like Nuva Ring, which is what they should've been using in the first place." In true trashy fashion, EVERYONE jumped on this guy and bashed him all over FB and apparently he messaged Tyler and ultimately apologized, but FOUR FOR YOU GLEN COCO. One of the best quips ever.

I didn't know that. You see that more often, mutiple teen pregnancies in one family. I'm sure a lot of research has been spend on the subject. To bad the solution has not been found yet.

Farrah's Syntax Gone Wild!! Oh my god your username is glorious.

I always assumed they just focused on the girls they had and "character development" of "secondary characters" develops naturally through conversation and interaction. They're not props, they're just people who are in the lives of the people we're watching.

These people also might not want to be subject to the MTV carnival just because their loved ones are. I mean, it's still supposed to be a "documentary series". It's not Game of Thrones where every little character gets some deep character development. I do agree that it would be good to see how family cycles play into these things, but we can't expect cousins or siblings or friends or whatever to divulge their entire lives at every minute of the day. Appearances are one thing, building characters out of real people is another. I think of the discussion were about B&T it would be a little different than the way it is now about cousin Krystal.

I don't know, I get a good vibe from Krystal. She's the one that brought up that Amber could also work on "substances" as well as anger at rehab, which made Amber very angry at the time, but was also true and needed to be said (I swear, they either upped Amber's meds at rehab or switched her to something stronger, because she looked more doped up in those scenes than she did in most others). I think Krystal is grounded, so for some reason I trust her divorce was for good reasons - like she married her kids' father, but he was a fuckboy like Gary, so she got out.
Also, regarding Amber's mom lashing out at Krystal for only being there for the cameras - I'm sorry, but I get a strong addict vibe from the mother. I know Amber wrote that both her parents drank, and I'm sorry, but she looks like a drinker - she's got the permanently flushed face (rosacea? that's what the heavily drinking Scots in my family have), she has spotty attendance in Amber's life from what we can see, and she massively projects her anger (doesn't like that Krystal was around more, so had to write it off as selfish and seeking fame). This is all speculation/extrapolation, but I'm an alcoholic in recovery and 75% of my Dad's family are at the very least have inappropriate relationships to alcohol, sonI recognize it. Amber's mom looks very much like my aunt, who likes her sherry a little too much.

I am sure thus is because a lot if these sidelines don't want their personal lives or children in TV. I know that's the case with Chelsea's sisters, cuz I found a blog if ine of them nice where she explained that they didn't want to be involved in the show.

Excuse my autocorrect stuffs I'm half asleep

I like to imagine that he was struggling, but not a total loss at that time. Maybe Kim was trying to help him and hoped he would do better.

His mullet obvi

The braided rat tail is killing me...

Oh my god, we were JUST talking about writing to Butch in the Kik group.

I created an account just for this. Please add itsmullettime


Please add me Red! SarahE31 :)

Add Me !! JAvisDSL

What is kik, and how can I join? If I can, since I heard it's an app and I just have a dinky phone with no apps or anything. :(

It's an app that is similar to AIM.

So is it only available on a smartphone?

I'm not sure, I'd check around and see!!

Ack. It's only an app for smartphones. Oh, well. TMJ will remain my only bread and butter for now when it comes to my snark.

Please add me sneaker3949

Please add me at PercocetPrincess too!!


Would you please add me?



Added you.


Please add me! myabee0109

Add me pleaseeeee RRoman88.. I don't know how to use it at all lol!

Me either, I made an account just for this! Lol!

Add me, please.

Looking at this picture made me realize how much Tyler resembles Butch. Yeesh. Them Baltierra genes are strong. Maybe it's a good thing Carly looks more like Catelynn nowadays...except Catelynn looks a lot like April. Oh, well, let's just hope that Carly and Novalee both inherit Kim's common sense. Carly is more fortunate since she's with Brandon and Teresa. The jury's still out on how well Novalee will fare in life, especially considering that she's going to be stuck with people like Butch growing up.

Also, I had no idea C&T's bullshit memoir was released. Has it been on the New York Times' Bestseller list like all the other "Teen Mom" books? I haven't heard anything about it.

I read a short excerpt (it was posted online, possibly was pasted here at some point) and what really stuck with me was "my eyes feel like anchors in the sea." I can't believe somebody actually wrote those words down. Who knows what other gems are in there.

A lot of the teen mom dad's have string genes. Aubree looks just like Adam, Isaac looks just like Jo, Leah looks just like Gary, Gannon looks just like Josh...

From the photos we've seen of Derek, Sophia looks a lot like him, but still not really. I don't know where she gets her face shape from. She doesn't look very much like her mother.

Farrah doesn't look like Farrah anymore.

Lol. Maybe Sophia doesn't look like Farrah because of Farrah's excessive plastic surgery? There'd probably be more of a resemblance between them if Farrah hadn't completely fucked up her face. I do have a feeling that Sophia will inherit Derek's jacked-up teeth, especially since she was sucking on her pacifier for way too long.

I think Aubree resembles Chelsea more than Adam. She also looks a lot like Randy, or at least she used to when she was a baby. I've seen recent pictures of Carly, and she looks more like Catelynn than Tyler, though they insist that she's Tyler's spitting image. Novalee looks like Catelynn, too, which sort of makes me glad because Tyler seems so self-absorbed that of course he'd act like both his daughters look just like him despite evidence that proves otherwise.

And Gannon looks a lot like Mackenzie! His nose, his smile.. He has Josh's brown eyes. I also think Leah looks a lot like Amber

I saw a pic if Farrah from the earlier days and by contrast to now I could see her resemblance to sophia

I think Carly looks a lot like both. Ok I think that I'll just end up saying that I see traits of both parents in all of the kids so that will be my blanket answer haha. I love the way genetics recombine and firm new unique faces it's always a fascinating wonder to me.

I think Aubree looks way more like Randy than Adam. She and Randy have the same eyes and nose.

When you see pics of the moms as kids you can see more of a resemblance to the kids since they don't have their makeup and plastic surgery heh. Tyler looks a lot like both if his parents I think.

I also like how Tyler doesn't walk around and blame very single bad thing he has done/does on his 'shitty' childhood.

Yeah, he just blames the adoption and/or Catelynn.

He was fine in 16&P and season 1 i thought

Yeah, he's definitely gotten worse as the series went on. I think he likes all the fangirls saying that he's the bestest dad in the world for giving Carly up and he can do or say no wrong. He's also very self-absorbed, as the past two episodes have shown Tyler constantly reading about himself and Catelynn on the internet.

He's become SUCH a diva. I almost can't be mad cause he's so young and the cameras get to your head but sitll....jesus christ the entitlement is disgusting.

The thing is though that pretty much all of the people on this show are full of themselves now. They all live in small towns and I imagine everybody there treats them like these huge celebrities. That in addition to all of the fangirls on Twitter, being flown to LA/NYC for reunions and making six figures would give anybody an ego.

I honestly think Maci is one of the most punchable when it comes to ego though. You can tell she thinks she's the QUEEN of all the Teen Moms.

He showed the seeds of abusive behavior (mostly the whole coercing Catelynn into adoption in the first place thing) early on and it's only gotten worse. He needs therapy.

I can go on for days about C&T's abusive relationship. The past few years have just been watching Cate and Tyler slowly morph into April and Butch. Say what you will about Farrah, and was right about one thing, they are white trash.

Their relationship is incredibly abusive and codependent. Catelynn just rolls over and takes Tyler's shit because he's the father of her children and she fully believes she can't do any better. I also think she doesn't want to let Tyler go because he's her only connection to Carly. I really, really wish one of her friends or family members would tell her that she doesn't have to stay with this dude just because he's her baby's father. I think Kim tried to talk them into seeing other people, but she was incredibly subtle about it and they didn't get it. And now Tyler may ruin the adoption with the photos even though Catelynn clearly doesn't agree with him. Their relationship is only going to get worse before it gets better.

I think a lot of out is also pressure from being in the public eye. I think one or both of them feels like they need to stay together to show how successful they were after adoption. I think I remember Cate once saying something along the lines of they were the only ones who gave their baby up on the show and they were the only ones who stayed together. I think so much of them still being together is about Cate trying to prove that she did the right thing with the adoption.

The way Cate always still asks Ty about whether or not he thinks they did the right thing makes it obvious that she doesn't know if she really did do the right thing. And (I'm not trying to get political here) the fact they basically tried to become the face of the pro-life "choose adoption not abortion" campaign adds an enormous amount of pressure to be the perfect couple and show that adoption is great and happy and rose colored and everyone had a happy ending. Because they wouldn't be very good spokespersons for adoption if they didn't have their perfect happy ending.

But they kind of blew that themselves by having a replacement baby 5 years later. I know to the shortsighted it probably looks like "now they have another baby, happy ending!" And less like "I couldn't get over giving my daughter away so I had another to replace her, sorry about the whole college and marriage thing, Carly"

Hence my title.

Exactly. They're the golden couple of MTV because they're only original Teen Mom couple to stay together (barring Farrah and Derek due to his death, but they were broken up anyway and Farrah wanted nothing to do with him). So they feel like they have to. It sucks that they had another baby without keeping any of the promises they made to Carly. They couldn't go to college, and couldn't even get a marriage certificate before conceiving again. And the best/worst part is, they've made no mention of it whatsoever. They never talk about it any more and seemingly pretend like they never made those promises to begin with. I think that's what bothers me the most about their broken promises to Carly. They've swept it all under the rug.

This show is giving unstable and insecure people a new sort of fake identity, even to themselves.
Being yourself when you are so much in the public eye is not easy for anyone I imagine. Maybe that kind of stress and self awareness outs problems that were already there far more stonger.
I feel sorry for these people sometimes that MTV draged them into this but MTV is not putting guns to their heads when they are signing a new contract again and again.

Especially because MTV entered their lives as teenagers, when they don't really know who they are yet.

I kinda like how Catelynn was like fuck off I'm gonna eat pizza if I want to when he was like babe you're getting fat. Tyler's a dick.

Tyler did used to blame a lot on Butch though. He used him as his excuse to give up Carly. As his reasons for being distrustful of people and his feeling of abandonment. He talked about Butch in therapy a couple of times. I think he has this idea of happy family's in his head. And that's why he forgives Butch. But deep down he resents him a lot.

Kind of funny because he's turning into him.

I think he thinks "as long as I don't do coke, I won't be like Butch". Not realizing he's still slowly becoming him, only batman tattoos are the new mullet.

Thank you Butch, for giving me the strength to finally make an account and join the ranks of the TMJ comment section.

Totally heard Jimmy Fallon's thank you note-writing music in my head while reading your comment.

This may be a stupid question but is Nick Butch's biological son?

No, Nick's father is some guy who's never appeared on the show (though I think April mentioned him a couple of times, only in the context of "You're going to your dad's house"). Butch did help raise Nick, however, and I think is the closest thing to a father figure Nick has. The more you knooooowwwwwww.

Jesus if Butch has been more of a dad to you than your actual dad that is really saying something. Poor Nick.

He was more of a dad to Nick than he was to Tyler too I think.

That poor poor kid Jesus Christ...

Super off topic but you guys are the only ones who will find this funny. i am re watching the last season of TM2 when Jenelle and Nathan get into a fight over Jace's custody and Nathan said. 'I am smart and I am trying to do it a less painful as possible. she hasn't got patience for it' OMG you are smart yet you cant string together a basic sentence?
Speaking of Nathan he totally remind me of my partners sisters abusive boyfriend (Paul). He is ex military and is a a physically/mentally abusive pathological liar! I finally realized that Nathan probably has some PTSD, he acts exactly the same as Paul! So when he says he is off on disability i really believe it.

Nathan reminds me of Farrah. They both cram all these intelligent sounding words into their sentences and statements in an effort to sound smarter, even though they end up sounding grammatically incorrect and like they didn't pass the goddamn fifth grade.

As for the PTSD, a few of Nathan's Army "buddies" claim that he never saw any kind of combat whatsoever. So I'm not sure if he has any kind of legitimate disorder as a result of his stay in the military. There's definitely something wrong with him, though, which isn't helped by the fact that he drinks like a fish.

I agree I dont know if he was ever in combat I really think something related to the military has stuffed him up. He just has so many similar characteristics to Paul. they both drink way to much, Paul gets drunk inappropriately drunk at ever single family occasion. They both lie through their teeth and Paul also makes so many false claims about his time served in the military. The resemblance is freaky!

And yes adding big word into a sentence to make themselves seem smarter... never works in their favor!

Who's paul?

My father was ex military with PTSD and ended up working in the trauma field. I grew up seeing military PTSD. I don't think Nathan has PTSD from the military. He might have some trauma, it's probably just plain old anger issues and narcissism.

He's just trying to milk his service for all he can.

Sorry if that seems harsh. That sort of thing just pisses me off.

Maybe Nathan has military PTSD but I don't think so. All evidence says no. And that makes me think of all the times in my childhood I witnessed my father's war flashbacks, heard him describe the nightmares he had, see the panic fill his face when a car backfires and he thinks it's a gunshot. Now I'm an adult who has never been in a firefight, and I still have a mini heart attack when I hear a car backfires because I immediately think it's a gunshot now too.

This shit along with the stories of him wearing medals that weren't his and shit user makes me feel like he's spitting on my father's service (Vietnam), my grandfather's service (WW2), and the sacrifices that my mother, my brother, and I unwillingly went through by being the family of a man who was trying desperately to not be broken by war. Being a combat veteran isn't a fucking game, and it's not something you suffer alone, you family suffers with you.

NO i agree, I was being too specific with using PTSD. I should have said I believe his mental state was caused by his time in the military. And I am sure he would have probably had some of his current traits even before joining the military but his time served has created who he is now.

My partner has a family member who went into the Army a sported sweetheart and kind of a dweeb, and came out a white supremacist. Like a Storefront kind of white supremacist.

I should point out my partner is biracial. He doesn't talk to him anymore.

And also I'm pretty sure Nathan himself has claimed to have PTSD. I just don't see it. And I HAVE a degree of PTSD myself (non military).

I think Nathan's just a legitimately stupid asshole. No trauma or PTSD caused that.

Just out of the purpose of education I want to point something out. I don't know if Nathan has PTSD, I'm not a doctor and can only speculate just like the rest.
However you do not have to see combat to have Military PTSD. My brother has been active duty for 5 years, he enlisted when he was just 18. Thankfully he has never seen combat. Recently he was diagnosed with PTSD after exhibiting panic attacks. Due to the training he received (not sure what there is a lot he can't discuss) he developed PTSD. I just wanted to clear that little bit up :)

I hope your brother will get better or at least feel a lot better. EMDR has done great things for me.

Ok, so I'm very late to the party. I'm not even going to tackle that 600+ thread.

But add me on Kik. I literally have no idea what it is, so someone hold my hand and walk me through it. I'm macisassociates

I know - I asked to be added, but have no idea how it works! Do the conversations just pop up once you're added?


I'm not sure if Red added me then - ANQB1001.

Added you, Teddy bear.

I hope you're feeling OK Maci's, I also hope it's not creepy that I'm asking you that :)

I second this. I was thinking about you the other day and hoping things were going better for you, Maci's!

Aw thanks for asking :) I got some pretty scary news today, but I'm trying not to let it get me down.

I can't say enough how much you girlses and this site means to me. Megan .. thank you for bringing this piece of happiness into my world. It means more to me than you know.

Eh...this is probably a less popular opinion but I think Tyler would be so much better off in life if he truly did cut Butch off. I don't see a future scenario where Butch shapes up and finally DOESN'T break his son's heart over and over again. It's beyond unhealthy to continue to subject yourself to that. I get that Butch is his father but he sure as shit doesn't act like it. I don't speak to my father and he was a much better dad than Butch and far more present during my childhood. The issue is that he has never ceased to surprise me by somehow coming up with new ways to insult me, hurt me, ignore me and generally make me feel like pond scum on his shoe. So I realize I'm quite biased on the "you only get one dad and you should keep him in your life no matter what" mindset. I don't fault those who are far more forgiving than me...it's probably easier on your heart when things aren't directly, in the moment, in-your-face toxic. But I just know that for me, personally, not having to worry about how my dad was going to be a blatant asshole to me next is a big weight off my shoulders.

I really, really hope Tyler was joking about letting Butch live with him, Catelynn and a new baby whenever Butch takes his next two or three week vacation from gel. It's one thing to forgive and forget when it's just you and your girlfriend...it's another thing to let a violent, drunkard self-declared "I love cocaine more than my kids" madman move in with you, your girlfriend and a defenseless child.

It did rub me the wrong way when Tyler asked Butch if he was going to move in with them. I mean, maybe he was joking, but he has let Butch move into his place in the past. And, yeah, what about Novalee? One of the reasons C&T said they gave Carly up was because of Butch and April. Hell, Catelynn even said at one point that she was glad she didn't have Carly because then Carly wouldn't have to around Butch's bullshit. So Butch isn't good enough for Carly, but he's good enough for Novalee? Yikes. I really hope Tyler was kidding because there's no way in hell Butch is stable enough to be around anyone, let alone an innocent little baby. April is better than how she used to be, but Butch isn't going to change any time soon. Tyler needs to accept that and move on with his life.

To be fair to Butch, he probably doesn't have many choices. Very few (if any) places would rent to him considering his history, and he probably has no friends that don't snort coke....so.....living with Tyler or his sister are probably his only options. Tyler & Cate only have one kid, so they would likely have more room.

Let's be honest, the whole American system is set up for ex-cons to fail. People won't rent to them, won't hire them, won't give them social support, then we wonder why people become career criminals.

Add in the fact the majority of convicts are serving hard time over nonviolent drug offenses, and many of them are first incarcerated at a relatively young age (teens and early 20s), which is very young to not have any type of future. And comparing other factors like the harshness of sentences for pot possession vs harshness of sentences for domestic and sexism violence, or the monetary resources poured into the drug war compared to how many rape reports go ignored and rape kits "lost," it makes it clear the entire thing is a joke. The people who are having their lives ruined are not necessarily the people who deserve to have their lives ruined.

It's a rigged system. Our entire system is literally a cheap carnival.

It really does irritate me to that sex offenders can be treated equally to someone who is a druggie. I don't agree with drugs but at least users are really only hurting themselves, they are not going around injecting innocent bystanders compared to sex offenders who ruin innocent peoples lives.

Add in things like drug raids and how many people have been murdered by police because of the drug war. Let's just say I've never heard of a baby having his face blown off by a flash bang in the process of apprehending a rapist.

The drug war has cost a TRILLION dollars since the 80s. Can you imagine if that money was put into healthcare or education? How low our taxes could be?

Recently Antonio Bascaró got pardoned by President Obama. He served 35 years for trafficking marijuana. Not violence. No other drugs. Just pot. He's 80 now. Meanwhile, the average sentence for rape is 8 years. Keep in mind a rape case won't even be investigated or go to trial if it isn't bulletproof (DNA, witnesses, etc).

I think this is also a good time to point out that as far as women in prison goes, domestic violence victims are actually more likely to have harsher sentences than women who aren't abused. This is a pretty good breakdown of it: http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/729

Basically if you're a woman who acts out violently against your abuse, you might be punished for it more than if you're a woman who straight up murders someone.

Let all this sink in for a while.

@Cate and Tys you're correct about this country being backwards about sentencing people.

I am not one of those PETA people who thinks animals need more rights than humans, but it irritates me that a dog can bite a kid, and be put to sleep by law (even if the kid provoked the animal!) and a child molester gets a slap on the wrist, and 3 hots and a cot for a few months. How can any sane person think that's okay? A dog bite (usually) does not ruin a persons life, being sexually assaulted does.

However, I think that our country should still do what it takes to keep drugs out. I have seen too many people get hooked and do really messed up shit to their loved ones. Society would be better off if they were locked up. 35 years for marajuana is excessive, but as long as it's illegal, there have to be consequences.

Keeping drugs illegal makes it more likely for people to become addicted. Note Portugal made ALL drugs illegal, now drug addiction rates at half what they were and Portugal has one of the lowest rates of drug use in the entire EU. Want to stop drug use? Want to help addicts? Legalize drugs. All drugs, from weed to heroin, because it actually works. Prohibition didn't work in the 20s, and it doesn't work now.

Colorado alone saw their murder rate drop over 54% after legalizing marijuana. And a 25% decrease in rapes. In fact, in my state you can map out the crime rates, and crimes rates are lower around marijuana dispensaries.

Especially consider marijuana. Millions of people use it for their medical conditions, which includes cancer and epilepsy. Should they buy it at a certified shop where everything has the THC and CBD levels lab tested and distributers are held to an industry standard? Or should they buy it on the street from some stranger who could have cut it with PCP?

I don't mean to make this a drug legalization speech, but I just think "well it's illegal so it must be bad" or "well it's illegal so there have to be consequences" is a lazy answer. Why things are illegal is important. Sometimes laws are stupid and need to be changed. Especially since the drug war (and corn industry, funnily enough) aren't just wrecking our country, it's destroying Mexico too.

Word on the street is a bill was passed that is going to make marijuana federally legal that will take effect in September, so there you go.

Sorry for the diatribe. I like facts and stats too much.

I never said because it's illegal it must be bad. Alcohol is not illegal and I think it's bad. Golddigging is not illegal, but I think it's bad. Feeding obese kids is not illegal, but I think it's bad. I think a lot of prescription drugs that doctors give out daily are terrible. I think many of them should be illegal.

Sure the crime rate has gone down, everyone is too lazy to do anything but sit on their couch and eat cheetos. I don't think that legalizing methamphetamine is going to make a junkie addict wake up one day and decide that they aren't going to do it anymore. Addiction is a disease. It's not some cheap cheap thrill that people get off on because its "illegal".

You're so right Cate and Ty's... the War on Drugs has been an epic failure. The US has 5% of the world's population but 25% of it's prisoners. Not to mention all of the problems the illegality of it causes south of the border.

If the crime rate only went down because "everyone is too lazy" we'd see high unemployment rates and a weaker economy.

In reality, Colorado has its lowest unemployment rate since 2008 and it gained an extra $40 million in taxes alone, so legalization has done nothing but make it a brighter, more vibrant and bustling economy with hard working people who just feel good.

Turns out the lazy stoner stenotype is really just a stereotype. Remember, some of the most brilliant and successful people in the world were/are stoners: Bill Gates, Carl Sagan, Richard Brandon, Aaron Sorkin (who did all the drugs), Ted Turner....

And as far as hard drugs goes, the facts speak for themselves. Drug addiction goes beyond being just a disease. It's related to a variety of social, political, and cultural factors. Legalization removed many of those factors. Not only did Portugal help many potential addicts, but it actually helped many active addicts by making treatment easier to obtain, legally and culturally.

It might seem counter intuitive, but the statistics do not lie. But the great thing about facts is they don't change, whether you believe them or not.

Tell that to "Dr" Andrew Wakefield.

@Sophia You make me lol. A+ reference.

10 points to Gryffindor!

The problem with drugs being illegal is the danger that comes with obtaining and dealing the drugs. I have to use Breaking Bad as an example here, how many people died in that series simply because you couldn't go to the local store and buy some drugs. There are so many drug dealing 'gangs' and crime syndicates. I think the difference between drugs and alcohol is that drugs screw you u faster than alcohol does, you cant take drugs in moderation the same way you can drink in moderation.

If you drink too much you die. If you smoke too much weed, you trip a little or fall asleep.

Alcohol is a drug. People forget this because it's legal, but it's a drug. So "drugs scree you faster than alcohol" is a flawed statement for a lot of reasons.

In the US, all illicit drugs combined causes 17,000 deaths per year (marijuana causes 0 deaths per year). Alcohol causes 88,000 deaths per year (directly, not including victims of drunk drivers or people murdered in alcohol-induced rages).

So alcohol fucks you up more. By a factor of 10.

Sorry or not being more specific, I am aware alcohol is drug I meant the difference between illegal drugs and alcohol. My point being with the exception of weed if you take hard drugs every second day for 6 moths and if you drink a glass of wine very second day for 6 months you will be far better of wit the wine. Hard drugs mess you up quicker than alcohol will over a period of time. A far as weed goes it definitely does have practical benefits but it can cause some serious mental illness, paranoia and schizophrenia. The age old saying, taking drugs (hard drugs) is like taking ice cream scoops out of your brain.

Here's the real deal behind the weed and schizophrenia thing: http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/12/10/harvard-marijuana-doesnt-cause-s...

Portugal has not legalized drugs, they have decriminalized drugs- an important distinction. They also did it at the same time that they began a comprehensive treatment program for addicts, so establishing a causal relationship is no simple feat.

And I do find it humorous that people always use marijuana as the point of comparison against alcohol. Yes, by and large, marijuana is not that bad for you- it may knock off a few IQ points and increase your risk of cancer, but far less than cigarettes, so what's the big deal? But then we get into heroin and meth, and the "alcohol's just as bad!" argument falls to pieces. Because yes, you can abuse alcohol, and plenty of people do, but it's perfectly fine in moderation- in fact, it actually has proven health benefits. But there are drugs for which the term "moderation" simply does not exist, because they cannot be used safely in any capacity.

Would I favor treatment and fines versus jail-time for most non-violent, non-dealing drug offenders? Sure. Does that mean most illicit drugs are perfectly fine to use? Obviously not.

And for the record, your conclusion that "alcohol fucks you up more, by a factor of 10" is irreparably flawed by not taking into account how many people actually use each drug. Total numbers are useless without context.

Cate and Tyler make rules for him to stay there and he does follow them. He did when he was out before. They even stated what a good roommate he was as far as cooking and cleaning. Then one day he would disappear and they'd find out he was in jail again...

I just want to sa that, "I don’t see a future scenario where Butch shapes up and finally DOESN’T break his son’s heart over and over again. It’s beyond unhealthy to continue to subject yourself to that." is very wise.

I think I saw an interview with C&T (I can't remember where, maybe the TMOG preschool or whatever?) and they were saying that Butch is a surprisingly excellent houseguest. He cooks and cleans and is very respectful (!!!) I remember this particularly because it was so oddly out of character. Also, I remember when C&T had Butch staying with them before and they laid down ground rules, like no drinking, drugs, no house guests. And apparently Butch was fine with the rules and didn't break them. Granted, I think that's the time when he broke his no contact order with April and went back to gel after beating her up. But still, with C&T he's apparently a great roommate.

Yeah it was in the Getting To Know Catelynn special. I just watched it a few days ago. He makes breakfast and coffee and everything apparently. Lol

I've known quite a few addicts, and it's not uncommon for them to clean when they can't get high. Especially coke addicts. It gives them something to focus on, and keeps them busy I guess.
Butch might be a terrible human being sometimes, but I do think he loves his kids. I also think he respects Tyler and Catelynn, which is why he listened to their rules, and went to stay somewhere else when he started doing drugs again.

I know people like this and I also know people who do this to manage their ADD anxiety. In fact I sometimes use housework to manage my ADHD myself.

My theory: Butch has either ADD or ADHD (keep in mind female ADHD is often misdiagnosed as anxiety) and both of them used amphetamines to manage their symptoms, like many ADHD patients do. Considering prescriptions for ADHD are literally meth, just Butch is actually living classy on cocaine. I think he started drugs in the late 70s or the 80s, when Robin Williams was using come to manage his ADHD. ADHD people have different reactions to coke than other people, it has a more medicative, calming effect and doesn't cause as much psychosis. From the descriptions I've heard of Butch's behavior on drugs, he sounds like the former. Add in the mild ADD his son seems to exhibit, you've got a genetic link.

April I don't think had ADD, or at least not as bad if she does. I think she got on coke because he was on coke.

Who knows, may be wrong.

Remember Farrah did coke too? Butch and Farrah can get high together in their porno!

ADHD meds are not literally meth, if your doctor's giving you meth you need to find a new healthcare practitioner. Also I've said this before but I feel it needs repeating, cocaine is not an amphetamine, it's a totally different drug

Nah, I don't think Butch has ADD or ADHD. He's just a dude who loves drugs than his own family.

And April...well, she's doing better these days. I hope she keeps it up.

Meth is meth-amphetamine, which is a type of amphetamine. The "meth" from Meth-amphetamine comes from the chemical name "methyl". The chemical Methamphetamine is composed of an amphetamine molecule with an additional methyl group attached to its nitrogen (amine group). A methyl is one of the simplest atomic groups which can be added to a molecule: it is a single carbon atom with a set of (usually) 3 hydrogens.

I'm pretty sure the top 4 ADD/ADHD medications are Ritalin, Concerta, Adderall, and Desoxyn.

Ritalin's chemical name is methylphenidate. As you can tell, it contains a methyl structure, which is attached to a backbone of a slightly more complex amphetamine.

Here is a comparison of their chemical structures: https://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/chemistry/chemistry_compare.php?LM=...

Concerta is Ritalin in a specifically designed time release capsule.

Adderall is just straight-up amphetamine salts. It's the only one without a methyl structure, which makes it the only one that isn't meth.

The chemical name for Desoxys is methamphetamine. It is literally meth. You can't get around that.

So there you go. You were right, Adderall is not meth, but the rest of them are.


But you're right about cocaine, I was tired and not being clear. Both drugs increase synaptic norepinephrine and dopamine, but coke does it by blocking transporter proteins and amphetamine forces receptors to work in reverse. The effect is basically the same.

Yeah I'm not going to take information on drugs from someone that has repeatedly said cocaine is an amphetamine. Desoxys is very rarely used you can't just walk out with a prescription for crystal meth. Ritalin is not crystal meth either it is a totally unique drug BITCHES

"Prescriptions for ADHD are literally meth"?!

As one of my Professors always said "A little medical knowledge in incompetent hands is a dangerous thing"


That's great, do your own learning and look it up yourself.

I don't know what your trying to get at here desoxyn is rarely used because it is dangerous. That doesn't back up any of your other "facts" about Ritalin, it' is NOT meth-amphetamine neither is Concerta

The information is there, do whatever you want with it.

What information is there, you said all ADHD drugs are meth you are 100% wrong I don't need to look at the information but I think you do

I love how you've responded with all sorts of data and sources to support your arguments.

Whatever. You can lead a mule to a library but you can't make her read.

None of your "facts" or data back up the point you were trying to make, where does it say that all ADHD drugs are meth. Where is the source that says Ritalin is meth but if you want a source here you go you're still wrong and your comments are ignorant. You really need to brush up on your Wikipedia medical degree

I've done plenty of reading.

Call me a cynic, but I'm going to go ahead and trust my medical degree over your shoddy "sources"

I used have terrible anxiety and OCD. For me cleaning was always because of the OCD not the anxiety. OCD is doing something methodically to alleviate your feelings of fear or anxiety. I used to clean everything a certain way and organize things a certain way so I would feel better. But m anxiety never drove me to clean, anxiety tends to cause physical symptoms such as head aches, stomach aches, dizziness and a whole host of feelings. So if he is cleaning due to a mental reason it is likely more a mild OCD than anxiety.

Saying Ritalin is meth is like saying artificial sweeteners like sorbitol and xylitol are alcohol. In a loose chemical sense, they do qualify as being in the "alcohol" category. But someone who chews too much gum isn't an alcoholic - the small chemical differences matter. Like even though there's the difference of only one extra hydrogen atom, Hydrogen Peroxide is really,really not water.
"Mary had a little lamb, but now she has no more, for what she thought was H20 was H2SO4."

Okay my husband has tried Ritalin and we were also told that Ritalin is basicly the same thing as meth.
That might not be the case as I understand now but that is what we were told by people with medical degrees.
The Netherlands are okay with Ritalin but many countries treat it as meth.
I had to obtain special permits for several European countries for him when he or we went abroad to prevent drug charges. As he could be asked to visit a customer abroad at any given time and the permits were only valid for 3 weeks max I had to obtain a huge amount of permits in advance. My personal record was filing for almost 30 permits at once so he could travel for three months. By then the health department of our government decided to send me blank forms that had been signed and stamped.
My husband does not use Rit anymore, luckily. His ADD has gotten much better after treatment.

I've discussed this with doctors and pharmacists and chemists, but people with PhDs know less that folk on TMJ, obvi.

You asked for a link I gave you one but you had already seen it hadn't you because that's where you copied and pasted your information from. If you can't admit you're wrong that's fine but don't make me out to be stupid and tell me I need to read when you are the one that needs to do that.

That is not what I am saying Cate.
I mean to say that people with medical degrees are maybe giving patients (and governments) incomplete information about Ritalin when I hear what you have to say about this.
When you are right, "health" is keeping up a public perception of Ritalin that is inaccurate.
Why? I don't know.
Why would they do that?
Keeping things simple? Keeping Ritalin of the "free market" and make sure it will never be seen as a "normal" drug by the public cause students, busy people and maybe sportsmen use (abuse) it? I don't know.
What do you think Cate?

I just saw the commercial for Monday's new episode and it's going to be about Tyler's shit-fit over not being able to share Carly's photos. At one point, he even criticizes B&T by saying, "You should know how to raise your child. Do you want to raise her around cameras or not?" The self-entitlement is just appalling at this point. I feel like a broken record, but, seriously. What a little douchebag. Just because they agreed to be on camera a few times doesn't mean Brandon and Teresa are supposed to make cameo appearances at Tyler's demand. He's going to get this adoption closed sooner rather than later.

I saw it too and I thought "uhhhh yeah, and clearly the answer is NOT!"

And Cate deserves credit here because her response of "well to be fair they didn't know 16&P and TM would become what it has....", is so dam mature and insightful. She also says that she doesn't care about photos, videos or whatever. She just wants to be able to see Carly. Man I hope her backbone is starting to make an appearance.

Cate is definitely my fav mom, but I always wonder if that is because she actually hasn't raised a child yet.

That's what makes me so angry about how they handled the photo "issue". I use quotes because it really shouldn't have been an issue at all. B&T still want to share photos with T&C, they just want those photos to be kept private. It's really not that much to ask.

I think it shows how much Tyler lives to be in the public. He cultivates an image, he monitors what is said, him getting all pissy over it shows that he's more interested in posting pictures of Carly than having pictures of Carly. He knows the consequences. He just wants to be able to tell his fans "Look at how often B&T send me photos."

Honest I don't blame Tyler being irritated about the situation, I understand that he would be frustrated. BUT he has absolutely no right to bash the way B&T are raisin his daughter OR say anything negative about them on national TV. He should have discussed his feelings with Cate n private.

I guess I blame him because his irritation just shows how screwed up his priorities are. As Leah's Toll Booth said, he thinks showing his fans what Carly looks like is more important than actually receiving Carly's photos himself. He's incredibly self-absorbed and obsessed with staying in the public eye, and he's willing to do that by selling out his daughter's privacy and possible safety. He did tell the crazier fans to back off and that B&T are Carly's parents and whatnot, but I think he only did that after B&T threatened to cut off contact (even though Catelynn claimed that was a rumor, which I don't think it was). It's irritating that Tyler wants to have his cake and eat it, too. He didn't want to raise Carly, but wants to be known as her dad and show her off. And he's pissed because it just doesn't work like that.

I don't think he was actually as annoyed about the photo as he seemed, he has never dealt with the adoption so I think he lashes out at anything that happens even if he doesn't really care. When I have problem I don't want to deal with I bottle it up and then over react on smaller problems to take away from the main problem, i think he is doing that. Tyler ss you said he needs to stop the way he reacts and just get some help and closure.

The guy actually said, on camera, that he would have chosen different adoptive parents for Carly solely because B&T did not what him or Catelynn sharing Carly's photos on the internet. I fully believe it has everything to do with that. Otherwise, why would he harp on about it so much? If this is his way of coping with the adoption, then he needs to go back into therapy stat. Plus, he's always criticizing B&T about the photos and how they had Carly put on a magazine cover when she was an infant and whatnot. He's obsessed with it. It's really unhealthy, especially since B&T had to threaten to cut off contact. Things must have gotten really bad this season for them to do that.

Where did you see that?

I saw it on a commercial break during Catfish.

It was during a "Catfish" commercial break. The narrator even said something like, "Tyler crosses the line with Carly's parents. Has their relationship been ruined for good?" or something equally dramatic. And they showed a scene of Tyler bitching about not being able to share Carly's pictures and Catelynn in tears.

"I can't find work I'm gonna do a porno with Farrah." I don't care if he kills puppies for the rest of the life. He's my fucking hero. YOU CAN'T GET THAT AT NO WALMART. He made like 5 different screen name options. Fuck everything.

He gives me life

LOL same here.... he gives me a reason to live.

He really needs to stay out of jail long enough to be on the show again.

Can you all imagine Farrah's face when she heard him say it?? Hahahahaha thinking about that made my life!

I was watching an older episode the other day and it's unfortunate that Cate looks so much like April...her dad is actually pretty decent looking.

Dude I flirt with her dad so hard on instagram. He is fine as fuck I don't care. I'll be Catelynns stepmom.

Makes you wonder what the fuck he was thinking when he got with April.

Cate is there only child. Maybe it was a drunken one night stand??

I feel like April could have been really attractive before she started to look like a junkie.

This is off-topic but speaking of gorgeous men....Trap have you seen that Matt Bomer AND Wes Bentley will be on AHS next season?

Kind of off-topic but speaking of gorgeous men...Trap did you see that both Matt Bomer AND Wes Bentley will be on AHS next season?


Gorgeousness overload. I'm optimistic about next season

I think Catelynn has her father's eyes, but she is very much like April in the facial features department. It's unfortunate. Carly looks just like Catelynn, too, even though they insist she's Tyler's identical twin. Hopefully Carly will have a much healthier lifestyle than either Catelynn or April.

I think Carly will have a healthier lifestyle overall, but I think when she gets older she might go off the deep end a bit.

I really, really hope she doesn't. Genetically, she is predisposed to all sorts of problems---mental issues, drug abuse and alcoholism. Yet at the same time, she is not being raised around any of that and is being nurtured by a pair of adults who seem to be pretty healthy mental-wise, who seem to value education, and who most likely are not drinking or smoking (or, at the very least, they don't do it around her). If either sibling must go down that road, I think it would be Novalee since she's actually exposed to it. But, yeah, B&T should probably keep an eye on Carly when she gets older. Just in case, you know, she tries to take up C&T's offer to come stay with them during summer vacation lol.

I read Jodie sweetins book a while ago. Similar situation, she was adopted had a loving family etc but her biological mother had problems with alcohol and when she took her first sip of alcohol as a teenager she knew she was going to have problems with it. Who knows really. But she definetly has a better chance of turning out okay with B&T than growing up around April and butch.

Beyond the genetic things, afford children are more likely than non-adopted peers to experience depression, have learning disorders, attempt/commit suicide, go to prison or youth corrections, use drugs, have teen/unplanned pregnancies, and have trouble opening up and developing bonds with other people. Sources: http://www.adoptionhealing.com/ginni.html

Not only does she have built-in issues with her adoption, she had the ability to see it when she is older, and she the lives of her birth parents. She'll see her bio dad coerce her bio mom into giving her away. She'll watch her bio mom give her up for a guy. She'll watch their abusive relationship, watch them trash her adopted parents, watch them have another baby only 5 years after they got rid of her. I can't imagine what she will go through.

Fun fact: birthmothers suffer an infertility rate that is 170% higher than the average population. That means if you give a child up for adoption you are 40 to 60% more likely to experience secondary infertility. I've heard that a disproportionately large amount of adult adoptees experience infertility too but I can't find hard statistics on it.

Uh, I'm not an adoption expert or anything, but none of that sounds right. I mean, I get adoptees maybe having issues with being adopted, but birth mothers experiencing more infertility? Adoptess being more likely to commit suicide? That all sounds like something people say when they want to prove that adoption is the root of all evil or something. Maybe I'm wrong, but...yikes.

I also wanted to add: when Ashley Salazar ran her blog, she was constantly bombarded by anti-adoption people who basically told her Callie's life was going to suck because her seventeen-year-old birth mother who grappled with mental issues let her be adopted by actual adults who were ready to raise a child. Most of these people were adopted themselves and didn't get along with their adoptive parents for one reason or another and basically assumed that all adoptees felt the same way and that Callie would, too.

Frankly, I have a hard time believing that Carly will be suicidal, depressed or unable to bond with Brandon and Teresa because her immature birth parents didn't keep her and raise her around drug abusers and alcoholics. I'm not saying that all adoptees handle their adoptions well, but, yeah, no. I'm not buying it.

I provided sources. The page is a compilation of multiple studies of both adoptees and birth mothers (no birthfathers though). You don't have to take my word for it, you can read the data yourself and make your own conclusion.

I've read most of the studies myself, they're fascinating if nothing else. It's worth researching just for the same of being informed.

If anyone has any studies that contradict the current studies and support the idea that adopted children are more well off than their non-adopted peers, I would love to read it.

I am adopted and greatful for it. I have several friends that were adopted and have not suffered from any horrific problems. My birth mother had two more kids and I had a child, so no infertility here. I have never considered myself unwanted, more like wanted and special because I was chosen. I can only speak for my experience.

I've known several people who were adopted and they never experienced any kind of issues whatsoever. I'm not sure if they're infertile since none of them have even attempted to have children (that I know of), but all in all they seem to be really well-adjusted and grateful for being given opportunities they wouldn't have had if their birth parents had kept them. Only one girl I knew had issues with her mother, but I think that has less to do with the adoption and more that her mother had a lot of unresolved mental issues.

Like I said in my other comment: I'm not saying that people who were adopted can't have issues with being adopted or with their parents or what. I just have a hard time believing that an overwhelming majority of adoptees are suicidal or depressed because of their status of adopted children. I have no idea where the infertility thing comes from.

I've known adopted people who were done, and those with problems. I also don't know every detail of their life, so the people i think are okay might not be okay at all. The thing with statistics is "more likely" doesn't mean 100%, it just means more likely. Some people are lucky, some are not.

I mean, appendectomies are 99% safe, but 1% of people still have problems including dearth (didn't double check starts, could be a bit off). But if someone knows 4 people who have appendectomies, and it happens that 2 of them for, that person is not going to view appendectomies as 99% safe, they're going to view them as 50% safe. This type of thing is called observer bias.

That's why statistics exist, because of we judge based on our observations we don't get an accurate picture of what's happening. That's why these studies are important and really need to be read and digested.

I'm not trying to day adoption is evil or inherently bad, I think when it works is a beautiful thing and don't rule out the possibility of adopting or fostering in my future. I just think people deserve to be informed.

I read the link and the source material is 20-35 years old. I find that research to not really be relevant to how adoption is handled today.Being adopted you tend to find your kindred spirits and I have only met one person who felt that his adoption was the source of his problems.I would feel very sad for Carly if people are sitting around waiting for a time bomb to go off. Yes, the shit show her birth parents have performed for the world will be out there for her to view. Hopefully she will see it as a "there but for the grace of God" moment over boo hoo I was given away.

no offense(actually I don't really care), but I can provide "sources" that unicorns eat butterflies and shit birthday cake, but that doesn't make it true. it's the internet. don't believe everything you read.

Well then why don't you?

I'd love to see it.

It is true that adopted kids are more likely (not guaranteed) to have mental illness. I mean even logically speaking they have to deal with all the same problems a non adopted child does, plus they have to deal with being adopted, that can bring up many emotions. Also these statistics are based on the entire lifetime of an adopted person, meaning that even if they seem well adjusted now they may have already experienced mental illness or will later in life.

Inconvenient truths.

In addition, I feel for Nick and how much secondhand smoke he's exposed to.

I feel for Carly and Novalee, too, when it comes to the secondhand smoke. I have no doubt that April, Butch and Tyler were all smoking around Catelynn during her first pregnancy, and there are rumors that she smoked during her entire pregnancy with Novalee. And she and Tyler are probably still smoking around her. It's pretty messed-up to think about.

I don't know if B&T smoke but if they do I doubt they do it in front of Carly...so at least she dodged that. But I definitely wouldn't put it past C&T to smoke around Novalee. I get SO angry when I see pregnant women smoking. You shouldn't be smoking at all and if you aren't willing to give up cigarettes for 9 months, you aren't ready to be a parent.

Totally agree. During the "Being Catelynn" special, there was a scene when Catelynn casually told her friend she might be pregnant...right after she did a couple shots and lit up a cigarette. It turned out she wasn't, but I remember being stunned that she would do all that under the belief she could be expecting. I've never been pregnant or in a situation where that was a possibility, but if I did think I was pregnant, I wouldn't drink or smoke or do anything until it was confirmed if I was or wasn't. Because, honestly, you're right. If you can't give up smoking or drinking for nine months, then you really aren't mature to be a parent.

I highly doubt Brandon and Theresa smoke. They don't seem like they drink alcohol either.

I'm sure they drink even if it's just wine every once in a while. Nothing wrong with that.
I actually VERY rarely drink, I've only had like 4 drinks in the year and a half that I've been 21. But that's mostly because I hate the taste haha.

I used to smoke, pretty heavily too, but as soon as I suspected I was pregnant because my period was late I stopped smoking. My unborn child's health meant more to me than a nicotine fix.

I seriously want to Kail-shake whoever came up with "quitting smoking will harm my baby bcuzzz STRESS"

BULL.SHIT. CONTINUING to smoke harms your baby. Quitting just to chicken out later and start again REALLY hurts your baby. And to think there are doctors who feed this bull to their patients floors me.

Tbf, the evidence shows that if you take a hard line approach, patients simply stop listening and won' trust or engage with you. That's why we're taught to do the softly softly technique and get them to cut down and then hopefully give up completely.

Trust me, most of us would far rather snatch their stash of cigarettes and tell them to get a grip for the sake of their baby; it just doesn't work!

It's one of those things where there is some evidence to support the theory, but people don't understand it well enough to put it into practice.

The stress of quitting smoking cold turkey does put you at a higher risk of miscarriage. But people are stupid and so they go "guess I should keep smoking because quitting is bad for baby" instead of realizing that cold turkey is the problem, and they should quit by tapering down.

Gahh that makes me feel like calling child services when I see parents smoking around their kids!! No matter what bull$hit people try to make up smoking is horrendous for not only a fetus but anyone! My sister when she was younger she had quite severe bronchitis 3 times within a year and ac couple of really nasty chest colds, we could figure out why she was getting so sick until she told us that her friends parents would always smoke in the car and around her when she went to their house (about 1-3 times a week). Mum immediately banned her from going over there and she never had bronchitis again.

I'm going to leave this here: http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/04/jenelle-evans-police-report-te...

Apparently Jenelle and some chick are in some inter-harassment legal war. I guess shit don't ever stop going down in Horry County.

It's a woman named Paula. She went on vacation with Jenelle, I think she's either dating Nathan's brother or she's dating one of his army buddies. I can't keep up with these people.
Anyway, apparently Jenelle has been harassing her since St Thomas so she went to the police. Arrest number 15 is coming, guys!

I thought Paula was Noah's (Nathan's brother's) wife?

Paula is Noah's wife. If you feel like banging your head off a wall you should go ahead and read the article on the stir about this. The "author" says that the only reason Paula went to the police was to make a fool of Jenelle and she should have just blocked her on FB and blocked her number. Way to enable the batshit crazy bitch

Keep in mind, any article trashing the other person and making excuses for Jenelle is usually sourced directly from Jenelle via one of her minions.

Is she the same one who sold all the stories to the media and took the video of Jenelle wishing that one guy died in combat?

I have a hard time keeping these secondary characters straight.

When I saw that Jenelle posted on FB, a message calling this woman "b*tch" and a "c**t", my first thought was (as my mom always said) "takes one to know one.".

Why post this on social media for all to see? It's so immature. Plus, it is available for the entire world to see. People (potential employers, Jenelle) will judge you for using language like that and for the mean ratchetness.

Okay, so she is off topic but there was a comment on the recap post as well as on an article on starcasm so i wanted to ask this since its a new article with a lot less comments than the recap:

Maci, Ryan, Chelsea, Jo and Farrah all seemed to live comfortable middle to upper middle class lives prior to MTV

I don't know anything about Adam's family but Kail, Jenelle, Amber, Gary, Tyler, Catelynn, Leah and Corey all grew up in the working to lower class bracket

Without the show and MTV's financial help, do you think the first half would have been more successful in the future because they had parents with money?Would they have graduated high school AND college, had a steady career, etc? Do you think the second have would be on food stamps, etc struggling to pay for their kid(s)? I'm not trying to start anything, but it's a fair question and i'v seen it raised twice on two different sites within the past few days. With MTV's help, they are all set financially to care for their kids, but if you eliminate the show from the equation, who do you think relies on their parents for help, who goes to the government, who pushes through school, who works a steady job, who keeps getting pregnant out of wedlock, who abuses drugs, who loses custody, which couples stay together with no public eye, etc with no mtv, fame or money?

I don't think Ryan would be any different and I think Maci would be relatively the same. I think any actual humility she's gained by being a mom had been canceled out by her big hot air head over being "Maci from Teen Mom"

If Farrah had never been on mtv, or even had gotten an abortion like she had wanted to, I think she wouldn't have turned out so extreme. I think the real world would have knocked some sense into her head, and she would be relatively normal- on the self absorbed side but normal. I personally find Farrah to be a relatively tragic figure, but that's another discussion for another evening.

No seems pretty level headed. I think he'd be the same. Kail wouldn't be as bad. She has Golden Mom Syndrome courtesy of MTV.

MTV was the worst thing in the world to happen to Amber.

I actually think the opposite about Amber. I can't remember if she said it herself or if someone else did, but MTV may have saved her life. If she wasn't caught on camera hitting Gary, she may have never gone to prison. If she never went to prison, she may have never gotten clean. If she never got clean, she may be dead.

Totally agree on Farrah though. I watched a lot of the old episodes when they were doing the marathon and she was selfish and delusional then, but it seemed like there were some genuine moments between her and her family/derrick's family. Like there was a good person trapped somewhere in there, under layers of narcissism and selfishness. Now she's just unbearable and it seems like the only emotion she can show is anger. She's always defensive even when she doesn't need to be. It's just sad, really.

With Farrah, I feel MTV created a monster.

Good point. My feeling was that the MTV money and the stress of media exposure made her drug abuse worse than it could have been. But granted she is very close with her producers and MTV did lead to her eventual sobriety in a very roundabout kind of way.

Let's just call MTV a double edged sword.

Oh that was me!! I said that exact thing about MTV actually saving Amber's life. She's the only one that benefited from them BUT she's now gotten used to sitting on her ass and doing nothing. What's she going to do when MTV is gone. She's not going to be able to afford that ginormous house she just bought. She has no degree and she's an ex con what's she going to do for money. On the other hand though MTV was able to help her get sober for real. Well they didn't' actually help her but their filming her forced her to get help.
I totally agree about Kail and Farrah though. I think they're the way they are because of the show. Farrah probably would've gone to college to become a business woman. Her mom is a successful business woman and not because of fame so I think she would've strived for that. I also think she would've grown the hell up and toned down the attitude. The show gave her an I'm bigger then life mentality.
I think Kail would've been way better also. She was working 2 jobs and going to school full time when the show started. I think she would've continued that and gotten her degree and be working a good job right now without the show. I doubt Papi would've tried to meet her or marry her either. She would still only have Isaac and I even think she and Jo would co parent better. I think the show gave her the awful attitude and victim mentality she has now.

I think ultimately Amber will go into addictions counseling. So many former addicts do, lots of times because it's one of the few jobs (the only one) where being an ex-con won't ruin her chances of working. I discussed the whole ex-cons having no chances thing in another thread here. But I think that would be good for her. She says she's going back to college, so here's to hoping she gets her life together, drops the Matt guy and reaches for the damn stars.

For all intents and purposes, Farrah is a successful business woman. She's the only one of all of them who has actually built a career (a sex work career, but it's still a career) and a lucrative one at that. I think once TM is fine she's going to be one of the girls with the fewest financial problems (assuming she's being wise and investing properly, not getting into Maci level debt)

When TM2 stated Kail was one of my favorites. She seemed like she had some of the best potential to be a mom. And her second pregnancy she got all crunchy and I was all about it, bit then she started smacking Javi and fucking with Jo and shitting on Vee and acting all high and mighty and now I'm over her.

Chelsea would definitely have ended up a beauty therapist thing, it just probably would have happened quicker. And I have no doubt that Leah was doomed from the beginning and the only difference would have been that she'd be living in a trailer park with a shitload of kids rather than in a house.

I thought Leah was living in a trailer on Jeremy's parents property.

Chelsea and Jo the same. I think without MTV money the rest of the middle class mummies would have not been able to afford to move out so they would have stayed in their parents house and gone to university and gotten degrees. So I don't know if they are better or worse off it depends if you value education or materialistic things like owning a house more.
Leah is better of with MTV. She has no job and I honestly don't think she has the motivation to ever go to school so she does need the money to fund Ali's condition and Mary K. Not too sure about Cate and Tye but i think Amber desperately needed the money too. And once again I just don't think she had the motivation or means to get an education. I mean the poor thing had a meltdown about the GED :(

Oddly enough, I feel that Ryan is probably the least affected by MTV and fame. He sincerely would be the same with or without it. He was going to be Mama's Baby either way - he still lives at home! He can clearly afford a home of his own! Likewise, he doesn't look for the limelight or promote himself much via social media. If he has a girlfriend, you know about it, but that's about it.

I think Maci, Farrah and Kail would be working if it weren't for TM. Kail had a really good work ethic during the first few seasons of TM, but the money and fame went to her head and now she has golden egg syndrome or whatever it's called.

I think Chelsea would've landed on her feet sooner if she didn't have MTV supplementing her daddy's money. I also think she would've kicked Adumb to the curb sooner.

I think Ryan, Jo, Adumb, Jenelle, Leah, and Gary do what they do regardless of MTV. Ryan, Adumb, Gary, Leah, and Jenelle are assholes with no work ethic, so I doubt not being on TV would've changed it. Jo doesn't seem to promote his life on social media like others do, so that makes me think he'd be doing what he is if it weren't for MTV.

I think Catelynn and Tyler would've separated if it weren't for MTV. I think they're together for show. I also think they wouldn't have reached their goals and would've been more likely to follow in their parents' footsteps as far as addiction goes. I think a lot of what they do is for show.

Amber is a tricky one. I think being on MTV spiraled her drug addiction and subsequent arrest, but the again I think it also gave her the stepping stones to clean up her life and be a better person.

I think Corey would have lived at home and maybe went to a vocational school to get a slightly better job. While his family is working class, I don't know if they're in the lower income. Something tells me his dad is really good with his money and has a nice nest egg. Though, with a baby momma like Leah it's possible that he would've had to do the same regardless of MTV.

MTV seems to focus on them living on their own and navigating parenting on their own, and that's very unrealistic for young parents. I think it's skewed the cast's way of thinking--it made them focus on what house they were filming in rather than where they would be living five years after filming wraps.

Trying to determine what Jo's outcome would be without MTV is tricky. If I remember correctly, his parents won a lawsuit many years ago (correct me if I am wrong). I don't remember ever hearing what his mom did for a living but I think his dad was a landscaper, or maybe repaired copiers? Either way, when they divorced they put their home up for sale, which to me means neither could sustain it alone.

This might be bitchy to say, but Jo grew up in a house where they didn't work for their belongings. So I think that mentality is in him. If MTV wasn't in his life, he wouldn't have the means to make rap videos and sit around in an apartment all day doing nothing. I think he might have furthered his education if MTV wasn't there.

On IBBB, the writer always talks about Janet being a dance instructor...in less flattering terms, of course.

Wasn't Janet a dental hygienist or assistant or something? Isn't that why Karl went down that path?

I think Patrick just wanted to see Janet booty pop and lets be honest who doesn't want to see that. I'm with Meth though I think she is actually a dental hygienist

I actually remember reading somewhere that Adumb has 3 brothers who are seemingly productive members of our society. I think one of them has a family and another one is a sport player in some major or minor league. Allegedly the reason why Adam's parents had their faces blurred on TM2 in the early seasons was because they were ashamed of Adam's behavior. Also, if I remember correctly Chelsea used to let Aubree stay overnight there, so i'm gonna take a guess and say that they are probably normal people, not ratchet like Butch, momma Dawn, Suzi and etc.

Can you imagine if Butch and Barbara were on the screen at the same time? It would be the most amazing thing I've ever seen. I need this to happen. Someone write fanfic on this!

We just need all of the parents to do an after show, lol. I loved Jo's parents too and of course Debra and Michael are pretty interesting

Oh Michael! I feel sorta bad for that man. His wife (or are they separated/divorced?) Is a controlling bitch and his daughter is... Well... Farrah. Debra must have one of those medieval vaginas that have teeth and that's why he's still following her around waiting for his penis back. Sometimes he gives Farrah solid advice and she rolls her eyes and ignores it. Sometimes he's an asshole but he's the most likable in that family besides Sophia.

That is the best idea seriously...they need to do that

I'm sure Butch and Pirate Mike are distant cousins.

Brothers from another mother maybe?

This paper towel has more than you do rae....

Awesome overload. Babs would scold Butch ffor sure. YOU'RE LIKE AN UNLUCKY COUT STAH! YA HIGH HIGH HIGH.

Have fun living on the streets with your muulllllllleeeetttt!

I'm sure he does


It looks to me that Butchie was released on 1/8/2015 and is out on parole.

So , let me get this straight ... Butch real name is DARL LYNN AHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG

Well, he isn't called Snarlin' Darlin' for nothing!

And his alias is Alex? Dafuq? He doesn't look like an Alex to me, more like a Darl or Butch. lol

I didn't know that he was Hispanic. I don't think he's actually out though, it says he violated his parole and now he's back in.

Wow, that's a record, even for him.

Date paroled 1/8/2015

Current Status:Parolee returned to prison for alleged parole violation

Supervision Begin Date: 01/08/2015
Supervision Discharge Date: 1/08/2017

Did he seriously violate his parole the DAY he was released?? Idk.. that's what I'm understanding from all that

Or is the supervision begin/discharge date the start/end dates of his parole??? The "current status" is what confuses me

I just took that to mean that was the day he began supervision due to his parole and that it would end two years later but it is Butch so it really wouldn't surprise me if he violated his parole an hour after getting out

I do Supervision/Probation work. The Supervision begin date is the date he was sentenced to do supervised probation, discharge date would be the end of his supervised probation. He would more than likely at that point be on unsupervised probation for the remainder of his sentence. With his violating his parole already, he will more than likely be looking at serving the time he was sentenced to, which means he would not be getting out anytime soon unless it was a short prison sentence.

Ohhh ok, I see.

I always assumed "Baltierra" was uber Italian...but according to his tattoo list, he has "Latino" tattooed on his left bicep. It doesn't mention his Carly tattoo...didn't he get her name?

...he and Tyler both have Baltierra tattooed across their backs?!

No, apparently Butch and Tyler are part Hispanic (I think Butch even told The Ashley Roundup or whatever her name is that his mother was half Native American or something). I have no idea why they're so proud of their last name that they have to get it tattooed on their bodies. I mean, I understand appreciating your surname or the culture behind it or whatever, but I think getting a tattoo of it is pushing the limits of good taste lol. Especially since we know how cheap those tattoos look.

She's a minor so her name cannot be released.

Baltierra doesn't really sound Italian to me but I have to say I've never really put much thought into it. It seems like having a massive tattoo of your name on your back would make it easier to identify which is not really what you want if you're a perpetual law breaker. I'm laughing at the fact that he has the virgin Mary on his left arm too, he never struck me as the religious type

The fact that he has huge last name and Virgin Mary tattoos makes me giggle. My husband is Hispanic and has those same two tattoos. I know so many Latino's with those same tats. Lol

This is completely off topic, but yesterday my husband was looking for new glasses and he asked the lady who was helping us if the glasses on a certain rack are men's and she said "Yes, these are all men'ses" made me think of Leah and the "girlses" lmao

Off topic but I've been wondering about something and I would love to hear you girlses opinions! So as you all know Aym is engaged to that creep. I was wondering do any of you think most of these guys who are with these girls in it for the fame or do you think they really do love them?

The fact that he was a superfan before and had a twitter dedicated to tweeting abuse at the Teen Moms (including Amber a few times) and he was from several states away and they found each other makes me question his motives and always will make me question his motives. Also, I was really put off by a preview I saw where he basically said he has zero interest in helping to raise Leah. That should be a HUGE red flag to Amber. She's already missed enough time with her daughter...she shouldn't be putting herself in a position where she might have to choose between a man and her daughter again.

Wait, he really told Amber he's not interesting in helping out with Leah? And she still agreed to marry him? Jesus God, Amber. At least Gary's girlfriend seems to have a bond with Leah and want to be around her and help raise her. So not only is Amber engaged to a known famewhore, but he has made it clear that he couldn't care less about her only child. And I thought that ex-con from Walmart was the worst of her former significant others. I think Matt may just take the cake.

Yes he said it on a sneak peek with a conversation involving ambers cousin. She looked like she wanted to puke just looking at him LOL!
He said that leah isn't his kid and its not his job nor does he have a say in raising her.

I don't understand why he wouldn't want to be apart of Leah's life if he loved Amber. She's a little extension of someone he claims to love...

I'm willing to withhold final judgement until I see him, but yes, there is something a bit creepy and off about him. His age, lack of job, and interest in Teen Mom is a red flag for sure.
I will say, though, that if hubby and I were to split, I'd rather he find a future partner that isn't looking to replace me in my son's life... maybe that's more what Amber's boyfriend means? She already has a dad, so he isn't interested in being dad. I'd rather have somebody with that attitude than Javi, step-papi extraordinaire.

LOL exactly. It's Amber and Gary's job to raise Leah and that's it. Nobody else deserves any say.

Ew he's such a creep

Is his site up anywhere? I would love to read what kind of crazy he is coming from.

Back in Leah land, apparently her and Jeremy unfollowed each other on twitter again and he posted a picture where he's not wearing his wedding ring. Here we go again.

Oh Lordie. I can't believe people pick up on that stuff so fast. How do you know when they follow or unfollow each other? Did someone actually go through and check to see everyone they follow? That's a long list. Who has that kind of time?

I guess so. I just saw an "article" on wetpaint about it.

Yeah I just saw it.


I mean, without counseling or changes being made... Then nothing will change. They will just continue to spiral.


I just don't understand why they don't just divorce. Putting the kids through their tumultuous relationship is unhealthy and selfish. Sadly, if they split, Leag will have a new husband in less than a year... And probably another kid... *sigh*

Theres a site where you can enter two usernames and see if they're following each other.

That's been taken in a mirror, so that's not his left hand

You can see his wedding ring in the close up of him carrying Aleah

True, and the picture cuts off his left hand. But those pics with Aleeah were posted February 26. That 5 full weeks of sluttin' opportunity for Leah.

Yea I just posted about this on another thread and how some girl tweeted him telling him to come back soon. Then he followed that girl. Leah caught wind of the tweet and followed the girl also.
Thats when Leah and Jeremy unfollowed each other.

Heres the tweet


Lol. FIVE WEEKS?? I imagine it would be unwise to leave Leah unsupervised for 5 hours!! Legses open for love everyone!

I really dislike that Butch makes me feel pity for Tyler.

I kind of can't even hate him anymore after the porno comment. He is def a pos though hurting everyone around him it's sad. But he's hilarious...it's a shame he'd be a great guy out of jail if he'd just knock off all the shit.

He's kind of like kieffer, a criminal but funny as hell

Holy crap. I have MTV on in the background for The Fresh Prince of Bel-air, and a commercial just came on with Babs in it. It's the episode of Fresh Prince where Will and Carlton were arrested and call someone to bail them out, and they spliced the TM2 scene where Babs refuses to bail Jenelle out of jail when she calls. It was beautiful.

OMG LOL...that soudns like heaven. 90's and Babs...wtf


Just going to leave this here. Anybody know anything about the epic throw down between cate's dad and perv McGee?

This is the first time I'm hearing about it lol. My first guess was that Michael criticized C&T for their comments about Farrah, and that maybe he criticized them for having a baby at this time. Like, he might have said some not-so-nice things about Novalee or something to piss Catelynn's dad off. It seems like C&T's parents more or less let them fight their own battles while Michael and Debra have to constantly put their own two cents in no matter what Farrah says or does. So it must have been really bad for Catelynn's dad to step in.

Also, I had no idea his name was David. For some reason, it struck me as odd lol.

Parents acting like their children.

Sophia is the most mature out of all of them.

cate,s dad wasnt there he said this after he heard what michael had said at the reunion i thnk the big fight is between debra and april and maybe michael joined in lol

Sophia is always the most mature. Most of the time, I think these kids are screwed, but the optimist in me believes she'll end up successful.

I also think Leah is very intelligent! Issac too. I think most of the kids will be OK. I worry for jace the most.

So Debra and April almost got into it too, lol. I wonder if Debra didn't like her antichrist attitude.

I'd pay good money for a Debra/April throwdown. I have no idea who I'd back, because Debra has those crazy eyes and antichrist attitude, but April is little and squirrely and lived with Butch so she's got plenty of fighting experience.


The Ashley announced Jenelle is writing a book... Lol

can she even read one?

Can she remember enough of her own life to be able to write a book? Maybe she will have to sit through her first five seasons of Teen Mom.

Oh its going to be just like the notebook

How many times can she tell tge same story?!

I was going to raise my son....but then i got high

I was going to respect the person who is raising my son and get her a birthday gift bbut then i got high

I was going to get married...but then i got high

I was going to say no to that proposal...but then i got high

Wasnt going to pee myself....but then i got high

Because I got high, because I got high, because it got hiiiiiggghhhh!
Love it!!

gah! I cant post my original coment because it says its a duplicate but cant find it anywhere!!! Grrr.

Anywho, does the person who runs the Jailnelle twitter come to this board???? I love this person, shes retweeting all the #jebooktitles and im just over here cracking up!!!!

I've just searched that tag, and it's had me howling.
My personal fave was; "Penis over Pride"

Im waking up everyone in my house with my cackling!

My fav is Are you there Dustin? Its me, Jenelle.


That happened to me the other day! Still can't find the comment I had posted...